T H E T R A D I N G F A Q
v.1.25
Created and maintained
by Zach Payne
on 07.22.00
Last Updated on July 8, 2001
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Legal
This document is copyright (c) 2000-2001 by Zach Payne. It was created
for free and public use. It may legally be distributed in its
original text form through free, online distribution. You may not
modify, sell for profit, or claim this document as your own work in
any way, shape, or form. Please give proper credit to me as the
creator and current maintainer. The latest edition of this FAQ can
be found at http://www.spfc.org/tradingfaq.txt. Please direct any
questions, comments, or suggestions to me at pzane@hotmail.com.
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Table of Contents:
1. Introduction
2. The Basics
A) What is Trading?
B) What do people trade?
C) What is the ultimate purpose of trading?
D) What is not the purpose of trading?
E) Trading Terms
1. b&p
2. 2:1
3. Tape Trees
4. Analog Tape
5. Cdr
6. Md
7. DAT
8. Video Cassette
9. Mp3
10. SHN
11. Bootlist
F) Other Terms
1. Generation
2. Sampling rate
3. Copying/Cloning
4. DAO and TAO
G) What kinds of live music do people trade for?
1. Studio
2. Soundboard
3. Fm
4. preFM
5. Audience Recording
6. Video Recording
3. How Trading Works
A) How does a trade start?
B) I have made my offer and the other party has accepted. What next?
C) The end of a trade
4. How to begin
A) Alright, I want to trade, what do I do?
1. Tape a show
2. b&p
3. 2:1
4. Tape Trees
5. Buying
6. Free Music
B) I now have something to trade. What next?
1. Start looking for trades
2. What NOT to do!
3. Traders' Resources
C) The end of a trade
5. Trading Etiquette
A) Why is etiquette important?
B) What is proper trading etiquette?
C) The unwritten laws of trading etiquette
1. Profiteering
2. Contacting and making representations of other traders
3. Mp3s
4. Do not trade out bad shows!
5. References and sending first
6. Be sure to put quality first
7. Be kind
6. Problems when Trading
A) Getting ripped off
B) Lost mail or defective items
C) International Trading
7. Trading Formats
A) Cdr
B) Minidisc
C) DAT
8. Copying Music
A) Why I have put this into the FAQ
B) Cdr Burning
C) DAT Cloning
9. Creating a Bootlist
A) What should a bootlist accomplish?
B) How do I start a bootlist?
C) The Standard bootlist
D) Symbols and Legends
E) General trading rules
10. Things to know
A) Why is the Smashing Pumpkins trading community different than others?
B) Many traders have all these shows on DAT. Why won't they put them on Cdr?
C) I'm new to the trading community. How should I go about starting?
D) Hoarding
E) Elite Traders
F) Why is mic/source/gen info important?
G) The Smashing Pumpkins' stance on trading and bootlegs
H) CDR Gens
11. Conclusion
12. What's new/history
13. Acknowledgements
14. Legal
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1. Introduction
The most recent version of this FAQ and the official domain can be
found at http://www.spfc.org/tradingfaq.txt
Welcome. This FAQ has been created in order to educate traders or
those wanting to be involved in the practice known as trading. There
are many myths and misconceptions about this practice which this FAQ
will attempt to reveal. Trading is a great way for fans to get rare
and live music without paying the high prices for those commercial
"imports." There is a large trading community, usually for just
about any band, but this FAQ will attempt to bring light to The
Smashing Pumpkins trading community. Sections 2-6 will attempt to
cover trading and the practices of the community. The rest will
attempt to cover factual details like how to set up bootlist, etc. I
will also try to cover things like the myths and misconceptions of
trading and discussions not to bring up. Enjoy!
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2. The Basics
A) What is Trading?
The word trade means "An exchange of one thing for another." The
practice of trading, for the purposes of this FAQ, involves the
exchange of one piece of music for another. Person A has something
that Person B wants, and Person B has something that Person A wants.
The two people simply exchange items.
B) What do people trade?
For the purposes of this FAQ, we are assuming that people are trading
music. Typically live and unreleased music. People do not and
should not trade copyrighted material such as "Studio Albums."
Studio Albums are copyrighted and royalties must be paid to the
artist for the use of the music. No matter how a person may justify
it, it is not ethical to share these items.
C) What is the ultimate purpose of trading?
The purpose of trading is to increase one's own music collection. If
Person A has 5 CDs, over time, he/she will hope to increase this
amount to 10, 20, 50 or more. People may also trade just to get a
show they went to or something that is special to them. Basically,
it is the spreading of music.
D) What is not the purpose of Trading?
The purpose of Trading is not gain monetary profit. No one should
use trading as a means of making money. This is wrong. Selling
unauthorized music is illegal. No royalties are paid to the artist.
It is unethical and illegal.
E) Trading Terms
In order to take part in the trading community, there are many terms
that one must be acquainted with.
1. b&p
This refers to "Blanks and Postage." This is a type of trade
in which someone offers free music to someone else. All a
person must do is send whoever is offering a blank piece of
media (analog cassette tape, CD Recordable, DAT Tape, Video
Cassette, etc.) and enough money to cover the costs of return
shipping. This type of trade involves no profit whatsoever
and is done purely for the spreading of music from one person
to another.
2. 2:1
This refers to another type of trade. In this type of trade, a
person send two blank pieces of media and receives one back
filled with music. The person who recorded the music takes the
extra piece of media as a type of payment. Typically, the
person must also provide enough money for return postage. This
type of trade can also be carried out in different ratios, i.e.
3:1, 4:1, etc.
3. Tape Tree
This is the largest and fastest way to spread music. A tape
tree is far more complicated than a b&p or a 2:1. A tape tree
starts with one person offering a piece of music. He/She is
called the Seed. The Seed sends copies of his/her music to
several people. These people are called branches. These
branches then send copies of their music to several more
people. Tape Trees can be small or they can be very big. They
typically are very structured and planned out. I will go into
more detail on tape trees later in this FAQ.
4. Analog Tape
Analog Tape has been the standard medium for traders but is
quickly being replaced by newer, higher quality mediums.
Analog tapes are just your average cassette tape. They are not
digital and do not have the high quality sound that many newer
mediums do. Nevertheless, they have been the standard for
years. They are cheap and accessible to nearly everyone.
5. Cdr
Cdr stands for Compact Disc Recordable. This has now become
the most popular standard of media as it is cheap, digital, and
has better sound quality than analog tape. Cdrs are created
with a CD burner that can either be run by a computer or as a
stand-alone unit (like a tape recording deck). Cdrs provide
many advantages over analog tapes. They have better sound
quality. They last much longer. They do not take as long to
create and there is almost no degrading of data from copy to
copy.
6. Md
Md stands for Minidisc. Minidisc is a relatively new format
for trading. Minidiscs are like Cdrs, only smaller. They are
about half the size and use compression algorithms to fit a
large amount of Data onto a smaller disc. They are also
becoming very popular for taping concerts. They are relatively
cheap and record a very high quality digital sound. Most new
portable models are very small and have recording capabilities.
However, MD's use a lossey compression algorithm so there is some
data loss. Whether or not this is audible to the normal person is
debatable, but they are not cd quality simply because of the lossey
compression.
7. DAT
DAT stands for Digital Audio Tape. DAT has become the high-end
standard for live recording equipment. DAT uses small cassette
tapes similar to those of analog tapes, but not the same. They have
different dimensions and store different amounts of Data. DAT
stores data digitally unlike analog cassette tapes and has a
very high quality sound. If chosen, DAT can record at higher
than CD quality. DAT is clearly the medium of choice as far as
quality goes. Unfortunately, DAT is expensive. It is not
extremely popular and hard to find. Mediums such as Md have
lowered the demand for DAT and as a result, prices have not
fallen quickly. It is the medium of choice though, if
affordable.
8. Video Cassette
Video Cassette is also a medium for trading music. Sometimes
we are lucky enough to have a show video taped. It can then be
traded on vhs. It is unusual to trade video on Hi-8, digital-8 or
Super Vhs as those three mediums are far less common.
9. Mp3
Mp3 is a form of audio compression. By taking out the high and
low frequencies of an audio file, which are supposedly not
audible to the human ear, it drastically reduces the size. Mp3
is relatively new and has caught on quick. It is undoubtedly
the fastest way to spread music. It can be quickly transmitted
through the internet. Unfortunately, Mp3s are not perfect. Because
it is compressed, quality is lost. There typically is a detectable
difference, despite what people may say. There are also problems
with poor encoding. People do not always encode Mp3s trying to
maintain the highest level of quality. Often times, people encode
Mp3s in order to save as much space as possible. People also use
poor encoders. These can result in errors such as "digital noise,"
hiss, pops or clicks, or any other number of problems. Mp3s are
not typically accepted in the trading community. The reason for
trading is to get the best quality of music possible. If a
trader wanted Mp3s, he/she could easily obtain them without trading.
They are readily available through the internet and almost
everyone has a computer and a fast enough internet connection
to download Mp3s themselves. Do not try to trade Mp3s!
10. SHN
SHN stands for Shorten, a new non-losey audio compression scheme.
SHN is a fantastic new way for people to trade music over high-speed
internet connections with absolutely no drawbacks if done properly.
How SHN works is a person takes any .wav audio file they have, use
an SHN compression program, and send it to another trader who then
uncompresses the music. Although SHN does not compress a .wav file
to the small size of an mp3, it does not have the drawbacks of an
mp3. There is no degradation of the original file with SHN and SHN
has built-in protection against file corruption. SHN's use what is
called an md5 file that verifies that no packet lose or damage has
occurred to the SHN during file transfer. It is an excellent medium
for trading and as the popularity of broadband internet connections
and larger harddrives grows, so will SHN. It may even replace mp3
in the near future. This is great for trading too because you are
no longer reliant on any mail service and is free for those with
unlimited internet access.
11. Bootlist
A bootlist is a person's list of items for trade. It is called
a "boot"list because it usually consists of bootlegs and live
music. These are usually put up on the web or are available
through email upon request. These are a trader's most useful
tool. By making public what you have to offer, you will be
putting yourself in a position to start receiving trade offers.
People will see your bootlist and make you a direct offer.
Also, because many people have these, you will be able to go
out and look through other people's bootlists. They are
usually found in a person's signature of a message post or
might be found through a search engine. There are also websites
dedicated to linking to people's bootlists such as
http://www.tapetrader.com.
F) Other Terms
1. Generation
The term generation refers to how many times Data has been
copied. A tape that holds the original recording is known as a
master. A copy of a master tape is known as first generation. A
copy of first gen data is known as second gen and so forth. There
is a significant amount of data lost between generations in some
mediums, little in others.
2. Sampling Rate
Sampling Rate refers to the amount of Data recorded in a
certain amount of time. This only applies to digital media.
There are 3 standard sampling rates, 32Khz, 44.1Khz, and 48Khz with
32Khz being the lowest quality and 48Khz being the highest
quality. CDs are recorded at 44.1Khz.
3. Cloning
Cloning is the process of copying DATS. In the trading
community, making sure the quality of a clone is of the highest
standard should be more important than anything.
4. DAO and TAO
DAO and TAO are terms exclusive to the Cdr trading community.
DAO stands for "disc at once." This means that the CD burner
burns the entire CD in one session and is finalized. This
prevents 2 second gaps between songs. TAO stands for "Track at
Once." This means that there are 2 second gaps between tracks.
Always burn DAO unless told otherwise (very unlikely).
G) What kind of live music do people trade?
The kind of music one trades for is completely dependent on how the
music was recorded. There are several types of recordings.
1. Studio
Studio recordings are generally the fewest in number, but they
may be the most common. Once studio material is found, it is
typically spread very quickly. These include demos and unreleased
tracks. This is not material that is found on the copyrighted
material released by an artist for sale.
2. Soundboard
Soundboard recordings are live recordings that are recorded
directly from the artist's soundboard. All the mics go
directly into the soundboard so this typically produces the
highest quality recordings. These are typically rare. Most
artists do not allow people to record or "patch" into their
soundboard. There are many reasons artists do not allow this, to
numerous to mention. However, there are exceptions and some artists
will be kind enough to allow tapers to record soundboard feeds.
3. Fm
Many times artists Fm broadcast their concerts live or
prerecorded over the radio. These broadcasts then are
recorded, preferably by DAT or Md. These are broadcasts of the
soundboard output, but are not true soundboard quality. Fm
radio is a lower quality than that of soundboard or even CD for
that matter, but it still sounds very good. Fm broadcasts are
great items to collect because they are usually very high
quality and are often very common. It is much easier to come
across an Fm recording than a soundboard recording. Along with Fm
comes Pre-Fm. This is simply a recording owned by the radio station
that has not been broadcast over Fm radio. It is better quality
because Fm radio only allows a limited sampling rate.
4. preFM
preFM's are a very high quality format, yet there are many
misconceptions regarding these. What a preFM recording is is
simply the mix of a recording before it is broadcast over FM radio.
These are usually recorded by a radio station and stored. These are
NOT soundboard recordings, but they are very close and very good
quality. These are simply higher quality recordings than the FM
broadcast because they do not go through the compression of an FM
broadcast. Many times these are release through promotional cds
such as Westwood One promos and BBC recordings promos. They are
somewhat easy and difficult to aquire. The odds of a person just
randomly going to a radio station and asking for one successfully is
slim but aquiring a released promo is rather easy. All in all,
these are very good recordings and should be considered generally as
the highest quality source below soundboard.
5. Audience Recording
These are generally the most common type of recording. An
audience recording is exactly what it says. A person in the
audience brought a recorder and some type of microphone to
record the concert. The sound captured on an audience
recording is from the speakers and does not always render a
high quality recording. There are many factors that decide the
quality and outcome of an audience recording. These include
the recorder (DAT, Md, Cassette, microcassette, etc.), the
microphone used, the acoustics of the venue, the crowd noise,
the position of the taper, and many more. A person can get a
very good audience recording, sometimes almost comparable to an
Fm recording, but more often than not, an audience recording is
just average or of poor quality. The advantage of an audience
recording though is that it means there is a recording of a
concert. Fm broadcasts are not always available, usually a
rare occurrence, so all that is left is an audience recording.
6. Video Recording
Video Recordings are very nice as you get not only audio, but
also video (duh!). But unfortunately, these are much rarer than
audio recordings. It is much more difficult to sneak video
recording equipment into a venue. It is also very rare for a
concert to be broadcast on TV. It seems that more concerts are
broadcast outside the U.S. so we are lucky to have many
European TV broadcasts. Because a video recording is harder
to get, video is usually worth more in the trading community.
Not everyone likes video though. Many people prefer to have
just audio recordings as they are much more convenient to
listen to than it is to watch a recording.
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3. How Trading Works
A) How does a trade start?
A trade starts out with one person offering something to another
person in exchange for an item the he/she wants. This can be
anything. A tape, a CD, a shirt, and anything else but money. This
is usually done by email but can also be done any other way. A
person makes an offer and the other person either accepts, declines,
or proposes a different offer. Many times, a person will simply tell
someone what he/she wants that the other person has. He/she will
then typically offer a list of all the things he/she has and tell
the other person to pick something out. Here is an example of a
common trade offer: "I would like a copy of your 10.23.95 show by
the Smashing Pumpkins. Here is my list. You may pick out something
of equal value in return." Note: equal value usually means 1:1 for cdrs.
Video's for cdr's are different but usually 1 video would net 2 cdrs.
B) I have made my offer and the other party has accepted. What next?
The next step is to decide how both parties will send the item. The
typical way to send an item is through the mail. The two parties
simply exchange addresses and agree upon a time/date to send. This
can also be done in person. If the two parties will be able meet
each other in the near future, then there are definite advantages to
trading in person. Each party can examine the item they are
receiving and are guaranteed to get it.
C) The end of a trade.
Once a successful trade has been made, there are a few steps that
should, but not necessarily must, be taken. One should make sure
that there is a record of the trade. Write down who got what and how
the trade happened. Keep as many details as possible. This helps
sort out any confusion or aftermath of a trade gone bad. It also
helps to protect yourself. Be sure to remember if the trader was a
good or bad trader. Keep this person in mind when carrying out
future trades.
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4. How to Begin
A) Alright, I want to trade, what do I do?
In order to trade, you need to have something that other people want.
There are several ways of obtaining these items. (NOTE: Most of these
ways/terms are listed in the Trading Terms section. If you are not
familiar with any of these methods, consult the Trading Terms section
first!):
1. b&p
You may be lucky enough to find someone who is willing to do a
b&p for you. A b&p is the best way to get a collection
started. It costs very little, just the cost of the media and
postage, and one usually gets a high quality show. There are
many people out there that are willing to do b&ps, but they
aren't typically advertised to a large group. One must
usually look on people's bootlists and find people that are
willing to do b&ps. Sometimes messages will be posted on
message boards or newsgroups stating that a person is willing
to do a b&p. If you go out and post a message saying that you
are looking for a b&p though, you probably won't get a huge
response. If you aren't willing to put in the effort to find a
b&p, then people probably won't be to willing to take the time
and offer a b&p. What you might have to do is find someone
that you think will be willing to do a b&p (i.e. Their webpage
says "Open for b&ps.) and ask them politely. Be sure to be
kind because remember, these people are doing you a favor for
nothing in return. If you are declined, remember that people
are busy. Getting mad and flaming a person is not the thing to
do in this situation.
2. 2:1
A 2:1 is also a good way for people to get started. It is also
cheap and a good way to get good shows, but like a b&p, they
may not be advertised to the world. You will probably be more
likely to find people willing to do 2:1's than b&ps because it
benefits both parties. A 2:1 is cheap, the cost of two discs
and postage, and a safe way for traders to get started. There
are many respectable traders that are willing to do 2:1s. The
only major problem with 2:1's is the outside chance that the
person you are dealing with may not be completely honest. Once
a person mails out his media, there is no guarantee that it
will get mailed back. The person may be a con and simply keep
the media and the few dollars sent. A person should be careful
before sending his/her media. Don't be afraid to ask other
people if this person is a known con. If the person is
completely respectable, then you should get plenty of good
responses and the other person shouldn't mind another person
simply being careful. Don't worry about offending the person
doing a 2:1. He he/she takes offence, then you probably should
not have mailed your media in the first place.
3. Tape Trees
Joining a Tape Tree is another great way to start a collection.
Tape trees are very safe and the music offered is usually of
very good quality. All a person has to do to receive the music
in a tape tree is simply sign up as a leaf. The only
disadvantage of a tape tree is that they can be slow and
sometimes confusing. People must rely on each other to get
their music and those at the bottom may be relying on several
people. If one person on the tree does not do their job, then
everyone below that person will either not get their music or
must wait. One advantage of a tape tree though is that they
are very safe. Branches are typically very well-known and
trusted people. The odds of most tree branches ripping a
person off are much slimmer than the odds of a person offering
a 2:1. If a person is ripped of in a tape tree, then action is
typically taken to either ensure that the person is either
compensated or gets his/her music from another, honest source.
4. Buying
NOTE: I do not encourage buying, nor do I condone it in any
way, shape, or form. I will not sell any bootlegs, nor do I
know anyone that does. It is illegal to sell unauthorized
music!!!
a) Commercial Bootlegs
Commercial Bootlegs are usually produced by European record
companies and sold for ridiculous prices. A record company
will get a recording, usually from an Fm broadcast, and will
mass produce it, usually on CD. They then throw in a little
page of artwork, usually stolen images, and sell it for $25 to
$50. I do not recommend buying these as they are far too
overpriced, but they are generally a safer way to start a
collection vs. buying Cdr copies. You know exactly what you
are getting and commercial bootlegs are usually of fairly good
quality.
b)Buying from "Joe's Cdr factory"
Buying bootlegs may be the only way for a person to start his
or her collection. Sometimes b&p, 2:1, or a tape tree are just
not available. There are people out there that do sell
bootlegs. Some of them are honest people that sell at decent
prices (NOTE: No price is truly decent or justifiable). Most
people ARE NOT THOUGH. Everyday I see people offering to sell
RARE, LIVE music for $20, $30, or even more money a CD. These
are scams and rip-offs. DO NOT BUY from these people. The
most a person should ever pay is $5 a disc. I see many people
offering to sell for this price and some for even lower. Be
very careful what you are buying. The quality and source of
the music is not guaranteed. You may be buying Mp3 sourced
material, i.e. rip-off!
c) Ebay
NEVER EVER GO TO EBAY FOR BOOTLEGS. The music that is found on ebay
is almost always Mp3 sourced and overpriced. Ebay can however be a
good resource for finding limited releases and promos. Be careful
however. The signed gibson les paul you see on there everyday might
just look a bit too good to be real ;)
5. Free Music
Yes, the best of all. Free music. Many bootlists have
sections of free and giveaway music. These are usually discs
that are either not needed anymore, are not what was expected,
may have tiny defects, CDs burned TAO, or many other reasons.
These are usually obtainable through b&p or by just sending the
required amount of money to ship it. The only problem with
free music is that it may have defects. It may be a CD with
skips, pops, or diginoise. Music such as this should not be
traded out. If this is the case, then these are really just
for your own personal enjoyment.
6. Tape a show
This is by far the best way to get into the trading community.
If you tape a show, you will automatically have something that
people want and probably don't have. There are some big
problems with this method though. First, taping a show isn't
easy. It is almost guaranteed that your first recording won't
be very good quality. Second, it is expensive. To get a good
recording, you need a quality setup and that doesn't come
cheap. You can tape on analog, but chances are that most
people won't want analog tapes. Taping on Md is by far the
best choice. It will cost you around $150-$300 for a good
deck. That will give you very good recording quality. Don't
use a microcassette. The quality is just too bad. The
expensive part is mics. The cheapest mics you can get that
will sound half way decent are probably Coresounds. Sony makes
some mics that work okay, but aren't really made for live
music. A set of Coresounds will cost anywhere from $180-$260.
Even if you do have a good setup, you still probably won't get
a good recording your first time out. It takes a lot of
experience to be a good taper. Remember, you shouldn't trade
out bad recordings. Keep them to yourself as memories, not as trade
bait.
B) I now have something to trade. What next?
1. Start looking for trades.
The first step is to start looking for trades. Your collection
is probably very small and consists of common shows. You must
get a bigger collection to do any really productive trading.
You are really just at a starting point. Start looking at
people's lists. Look at lists that are small. Try and find
people that are just starting out like yourself. Most people
will have common shows. Try to get as many of these as
possible. This will create a base for future trading. Start
setting up trades. Look through as many lists as possible.
Offer as many trades as you can handle. If you think there
might be any chance of you getting a trade out of a show, try
it. Getting your list off the ground can be difficult and time
consuming, but all that is needed is a little effort.
2. What not to do!
When you are starting your collection, there are several things
that you really shouldn't do.
a) When publicizing that you are looking for trades, it is wise
to use some caution and common sense. It really isn't wise to
constantly post messages saying "FT: 10.23.95." It's okay to
do this once or twice, but after a while it gets old. It is
also okay to post info about one trade if perhaps you taped it.
Just use a little caution about multiple posts. People tend to
get irritated when they constantly see the same messages.
b) Don't go for traders with big lists. The odds of you
having something they don't and want are slim. Many people make
this mistake. I hear time and time again that no one will
trade with them because they don't need anything they have.
This is just a case where the person hasn't been looking in the
right places. Once again, look at small lists. Try to find
people who are just starting out like yourself. If you can't
find a trade, it is because you aren't looking hard enough.
You are cetainly welcome to try with big traders, but odds are
you will be turned down.
c) Once you have a small collection, DO NOT offer to sell it.
This will only get you the disrespect of serious traders and it
is against the law. Once a person offers to sell, he/she is
often branded and it may take a long time to restore your
reputation. People remember these things for a long time. I
have often heard discussions between long time traders where a
selling incident had taken place many years ago and has not
been forgotten. Remember, it is in your best interest as a
trader to keep your reputation intact. If you don't, people
won't trade with you.
d) Never, ever, offer Mp3s. Mp3s are not what trading is
about. The quality of an Mp3 is far less than that of true
digital audio. If a person wanted Mp3s then they could simply
go download them like everyone else. Please, Mp3s are for
personal enjoyment only. Do not offer them or put them in your
list. If you try to trade an experienced trader Mp3s, the odds
are good that they will find out. There are many tell-tale
signs of Mp3 sourced material. You will be branded as an Mp3
rip-off.
e) Do not give up. Getting a collection can be tough. It may
take a lot of effort, but those that are lazy will never
succeed. Trading is fun and should be enjoyable. Think of it
as a hunt!
3. Traders' Resources
There are many helpful resources that have been published for
traders. It is the responsibility of the trader to research
shows, especially those that are incoming. If you get a show
that is incomplete, it is your fault. It was your
responsibility to research that show. Here are some of the
most helpful resources.
a) http://www.tapetradernetwork.com/
This is a great link to find bootlists. It has nearly every
artist and a searchable database. You can also add your
bootlist to the list so others can find you. About the only
problem with this is that there are so many lists, it may
take a while to sort through them all. There are also many
dead links.
b) http://www.tapetrader.com/
This is similar to tape trader network. It has a complex
database with many traders interested in many bands. You can
add you list and search others. Once again, it does have a lot
of lists and may take time to search through. Dead links are a
problem as well.
c) The SPFC
The SPFC (Smashing Pumpkins Fan Collaborative) is by far the
most valuable tool. It provides accurate setlists for most
known dates, has a commercial bootlist section, tour history,
and much more. It has just recently added all known recording
information as well. http://www.spfc.org.
d) Karl Daher's Cd Bootlist
This is a text based article that attempts to list all known
commercial bootlegs. It has not been updated since mid 1997,
but it is still very accurate and a useful tool. This has now
been taken over by the SPFC.
e) The Smashing Pumpkins Recording Sessions
This is another text based article that attempts to cover all
known recording sessions, as well as known TV and radio
appearances. It was created and maintained by Jesse Miller.
It is up to date and an excellent resource. This has also been
incorporated into the SPFC, yay!
http://www.tcinternet.net/users/butlers/sessions.html
f) Smashing Pumpkins Text Based Discography
This was compiled by Dave Asselin and attempts to cover all
known official releases. It does not attempt to cover bootlegs
or "gray" areas such as interview discs.
http://www.xero.com/sp/spdiscog.txt
g) The Mashed Potatoes FAQ
This is the Frequently Asked Questions concerning the Mashed
Potatoes Box Set and is intended to answer any questions
pertaining to the Mashed Potatoes Box Set. It was created and
is maintained by Jesse Miller.
http://www.tcinternet.net/users/butlers/mashed.txt
C) The End of a Trade.
Once you have completed a successful trade, there are several things
you should do.
a) First, make sure you have a record of the trade. Take accurate
notes on who got what, when things were sent, and any problems that
occurred. By making sure that you have accurate records you will be
in a better position to protect yourself if there are any future
problems.
b) Be sure to put a good trader on your good trader list. These
people can then be used for future references for either yourself, or
someone else seeking information on a particular trader. The more
respectable references you have, the more likely people will be
willing to trade with you and not be afraid of being ripped off. It
is also a nice gesture to the other trader for being a good trader.
By having him on your good trader list, he can refer people asking
about his reputation to you. Most people put their good trader lists
on their websites or bootlists.
c) Try to keep people's addresses, email addresses, website links, or
any other way to possibly get into contact with a particular person.
If you one day notice that the tape or CD you received was defective
or in any way unacceptable, you can then get into contact with the
appropriate trader. If you delete all possible ways of contacting a
trader, you might be out of luck!
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5. Trading Etiquette
A) Why is Etiquette important?
Trading Etiquette is extremely important, yet it is frequently
discarded. Proper etiquette is important because as a trader, it is
in your best interest and the interest of the community to put forth
a respectable image. If you do not appear respectable, people will
not want to trade with you. It is very easy to become branded in the
trading community. Just one or two incidents can haunt a person for
his/her entire trading career. It is also important to appear
respectable because remember, trading and bootlegs often have legal
implications. Bootleggers, people that sell bootlegs, have given a
poor image to those not involved in trading. They simply see
profiteering off the artist's hard work. If we do not try to maintain
a respectable image, then the preconceived misconceptions of those
outside the community will only be reinforced. True traders are in
it for the music, NOT profit.
B) What is proper Trading Etiquette?
There is not a written set of rules regarding trading etiquette.
There is simply a set of unwritten guidelines that people of the
trading community try to abide by. These are different in every
trading circle. There are of course, differences of opinion on what
good trading etiquette is. Trading etiquette is not an exact
science. I will attempt to try and explain, in the most neutral
manner possible, some of these unwritten guidelines. The most basic
principle one should keep in mind is "treat others as you would want to be
treated." These are not necessarily reflections of my own opinions.
C) The unwritten laws of Trading Etiquette.
1. Profiteering
Profiteering is not acceptable. It is illegal in most countries
and is regarded as the worst possible offence of trading
etiquette. People that profiteer are simply stealing the hard
work and efforts of the artist and using them for their own
profit. Profiteering is simply defined as the acceptance of
money, gifts, or any other item, material, or service that is
not to cover ONLY costs. Costs are media, postage, and shipping
materials. Costs would not include the cost of i.e. a DAT
recorder. In the case where someone would present their DAT recorder
as a cost: "I had to buy all this equipment to record the show."
The reason something like a DAT recorder is not a cost is because you
have agreed to pay X amount of money for a good. The relationship
between you purchasing this equipment to tape a show means nothing
because you now have a good of equal value in return for your money.
The excuse of equipment to record a show is a cost is not valid.
a) Is a 2:1 considered profiteering? In a word, Yes. The
acceptance of blank media is a profit. Time is not a cost, so
accepting blank media can not be justified by trying to replace
time. The question here is whether or not this is right or
wrong. Some people believe that it is okay. They are doing a
favor to the other trader, and because the profit is so small,
then it is okay. Others say no. They feel that making a profit is
wrong, no matter how large or small the profit. It is simply a
matter of opinion. Once again, this topic is debatable and I am
in no way supporting or defending either reasoning.
2. Contacting and making representations of other traders.
Contacting traders should usually be done in a kindly manner and
through the proper channels. When dealing with fellow traders,
a person should do so in a courteous and kindly manner. A
person should not post messages on a message board making
statements about another trader except to inform others if
he/she is a reasonable threat to the community, namely, a bad
trader. Personal quarrels or vendettas should be solved
privately, usually by email, phone, icq, etc. Flame wars should
be avoided at all possible costs. These only lead to more
problems. There are enough flame wars already, there doesn't
need to be any more.
3. Mp3s
Mp3s have become the latest controversy in the trading
community. They are easy to get, spread very quickly, good
quality, and can be easily made. As a result, they have been
heavily abused. Mp3s are not for trading. DO NOT offer Mp3s to
people for trades unless both parties are trading Mp3s. Mp3s
are not wanted in the trading community. Traders want true
digital audio. Mp3s or any file that has ever been an Mp3 is
not true digital audio. Audio files that have been converted
from Mp3 to .wavs are often even worse quality than the original
Mp3. Mp3s are for personal enjoyment only. They have no place
in the trading community. Once again, do not ever, under any
circumstances, offer Mp3s for trading purposes or try to pass
off anything as true digital audio that really isn't.
4. Don't trade out bad shows
This is a touchy subject. It is in the best interest of the
trading community to keep "Bad" shows out of circulation. Bad does
not mean sonically or performance wise, but rather the integrity of
the recording. What is considered bad or good is really a matter of
opinion. If you are determining whether a show should or should not
be traded, think about the quality of the copy you have. Is
defective? Does it have skips? Pops? Diginoise? If you know
your copy is defective, then perhaps you should think about just
keeping it to yourself. Here is an issue where you don't have
to not trade out a show: Person recorded a show with
CSBmod>anaM (Average mics > Analog). Person B recorded it Schoeps
Mk4>M1 (Really nice mics> DAT) . Sure, person B's recording probably
sounds better, but that doesn't mean that person A shouldn't trade
out his/her copy. Maybe one person prefers the sound of person A's
recording over person B. It really is a matter of opinion.
5. References and sending first
When traders first start out, they have no references.
References are needed as checks to make sure that one is not
ripped off. If you cannot provide references, then it is
usually expected that you send your media first. If the other
person has references, then you should have absolutely no reason
to worry. If both parties have references, then people usually send
at the same time. There are some people who say that if you
contact first, then you send first. This can be a very tacky
rule and is typically not respected. It is viewed as a way to
still get out of sending at the same time even if the other
person has references. Everyone must take the chance and have
faith that their end of the trade will come.
6. Be sure to put quality first
This is one of the most important ideas if you want to have
continued success as a trader. If you don't make sure that you
put quality above all else, you won't be a respected trader and
you won't get repeat trades. As a trader, I make sure that
everyone I trade with gets the highest quality material
possible. If I don't, people won't want to trade with me
anymore and I won't be able to keep my list growing. Likewise,
if someone doesn't give me quality material, which has happened,
then I won't trade with that person anymore. This means burning
CDs at 2x rather than 8x. It means using brand new video tapes,
not used ones. It means using high quality Cdrs rather than
cheapos. You have to put forth the extra effort. I don't care
how many Cdrs you have to burn. If you don't have the time to
burn mine at 2x, then I don't have the time to trade with you.
It's that simple. Be sure to double-check the stuff you send
out as well. Make sure that you did everything correct. Make
sure it's DAO or recorded in SP mode. Most traders will do the
same for you!
7. Be Kind
You simply can't get around this rule. People won't want to
deal with you if you aren't kind. There are traders in the
community who are not kind. They lie, make false allegations,
and rip others off. Make sure that you are not one of these
people. If you are kind to others, they will be kind to you.
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6. Problems when Trading
A) Getting Ripped Off
Unfortunately, not everyone in the trading community is an honest
person. There are those that would rather take advantage of people
rather than take the time to become a good trader. Sometimes,
traders get ripped off. It just happens. There really isn't
anything that can be done to prevent it besides checking people's
references. If you do happen to get ripped off though, here is what
you should do:
1. If you suspect that you might have been ripped off, don't rush to
immediate conclusions. People can make mistakes. A person
might have simply forgotten to do his part. Traders oftentimes make
more trades than they can handle. Sometimes they lose track of
trades and forget one. It happens. It is also possible that a trade
might have gotten lost in the mail. Perhaps there was a family
emergency or something extremely important came up. Getting trades
out may not be a person's priority at that time. Don't jump to
conclusions and then find out you have made a mistake. You will not
only hurt the other trader, but yourself as well.
2. If a more than reasonable time has passed and your end of the
trade has not arrived, simple type up a nice message to the other
party and state your problem. There is no need to be hostile. Be
polite and simply tell the other person that your trade has not come
and if there are any problems. They may tell you several things.
They could say that they sent it and must have gotten lost in the
mail. They might say they just haven't gotten around to it. The
worst possible scenario is that they just simply don't reply. If you
are sure they haven't changed their email address, then they may be
ignoring you. This is the tell tale sign that they aren't going to
send. Still, don't rush to any hasty action.
3. If they did reply, then it probably should be resolved. If they
didn't, it is up to you to try to get in contact with them. Try
other means of contact. If all methods fail and a large amount of
time has past, like three months, then it is probably time to take
action.
4. It is important to inform the community of bad traders so others
don't suffer the same fate as yourself. Put a bad trader warning on
the web. Tell people how you were scammed and any information that
he used, i.e. email address, home address. This may or may not
entice the bad trader to send your stuff. People tend to remember
bad traders and a person does not want to be branded one. If the
traders fulfills his part of the trade, then put out another message,
just as big and important, saying he has fulfilled the trade.
Remember if you are ripped off, it is probably your own fault. Be
careful and you are much less likely to be taken advantage of.
B) Lost mail or defective items
If you receive an item that is not what you expected or nothing came
at all, then the other trader has a responsibility to either replace
or resend. One of the biggest problems with Cdr trading is burning
TAO. This means there are 2 second gaps between tracks. This
basically ruins a live concert. The other trader has a
responsibility to replace his end of the trade. He/She messed up, he/she
must fix it. Be polite when dealing with these kinds of situations. If
you're rude, then may feel no need to replace an item. Traders,
please, take responsibility. If you messed up, fix it. Another
problem is items getting lost in the mail. Again, it is the trader's
responsibility to make sure an item gets there. The odds are just as
good that your trade will be lost as the other persons. If you don't
resend an item, then it will look as though you never intended to
send in the first place and you can and will be considered a bad trader.
C) International Trading
This is a problem that has been rather unclear to most. The problems
when trading internationally is that everyone does it differently
and every country has different rules and regulations. Here are a
few things to keep in mind when trading internationally:
1. Customs Forms
Customs Forms, or CN-22 Forms, are very, very important and must be
filled out properly or else some very annoying problems occur. It
is a good idea to fill out a custom form for every international
trade, even though it may not be required. Usually, small packet
air packages (otherwise known as simple letters) are not subject to
customs checks. However, a cd or tape probably won't pass off as a
letter if it is to big or heavy. Therefore, filling out a customs
form is probably a good idea to be safe.
Now, theoretically, all incoming goods into a country are subject to
tariffs/taxes. However, customs people sometimes get lazy and don't
want to spend the time to collect taxes on small items of little
value. It just isn't worth the effort to collect a few cents on a
measly cd. When filling out a customs form, one should also put
"data cdr/tape." By putting the word data, it classifies a package
as software rather than audio. Usually, software is not subject to
customs taxes and should pass through without problem. If you just
put "cds" or "audio cds," The customs people will probably assume
that it is a normal audio cd, worth relatively $18, rather than a
cdr worth $.18. There is a huge difference between the two and even
if you are only sending cdrs, if you don't put data or cdr on the
customs form, they will assume it's a normal commercial cd.
The value stated on the customs form must also be considered.
Usually if the value of a package is below a certain amount, customs
will not bother with it. The unwritten standard seems to be about
$5 US. All attempts should be made to keep the value of the package
below this number. However, do not write an obscene value such as
$0 or $.30. This is just begging for an inspection. Just put a
normal value like $4 and you should be just fine.
Customs is a tricky business and every country works differently. I
would suggest that if you aren't sure about the policies of a
certain customs department, call and ask them about their practices.
They usually will be more than happy to answer your questions if you
are polite.
2. Postage for B&P's
Sometimes a person doing an international B&P doesn't have the
access to foreign currency or postage. If a person from Peru
might not be able to find British money or postage. When doing
a B&P, there is no reason that the B&P'er should have to pay
for the expensive return postage. In this instance, a form of
2:1 is now very acceptable. The idea is that the extra Cdr
sent is a form of payment for postage. The B&P'er pays for the
postage out of his/her own pocket but keeps the Cdr in return.
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7. Trading Formats
A) Analog Tape
Analog Tape has been the standard for many years now in trading.
It is very common. Just about everyone has a cassette player and
cassettes are cheap and easy to copy. Analog Tapes are starting to
become outdated though. There are fewer and fewer people trading
analog tapes and many people refuse to take them. Analog tapes are
quickly being replaced by newer mediums such as Cdr and Md. These
are clearly better formats as they have a higher quality and last
much longer. The main problem with analog tape is that they have
lower music quality and there is a significant amount of degradation
between copies. A fourth generation tape will sound noticeably worse
than a first generation tape. Tapes also don't last as long as Cdr
or Md. They are also less durable. Players may eat tapes and render
them useless. Analog tape was a great way to spread music, but its
time is up. There are now better methods and mediums.
B) Cdr
Cdr is undoubtedly the medium of the moment. Cdr is growing at an
unbelievable rate and is quickly replacing analog tape. Cdr is
probably the most common medium for traders. It is cheap and renders
very good music quality. If copied correctly, Cdr copies yield virtually
no generation loss.
C) Minidisc
Minidisc, more commonly known as Md, is popular in the trading
community because portable minidisc players can record live music.
Minidiscs are smaller than Cdrs but can store the same amount of
Data. Recordings on minidisc can be very good because of the
higher sampling rate than analog tape. There are two problems with
minidisc though. First, minidiscs are not that popular. There are
less Md traders than there are Cdr traders and most people who own Md
trade on Cdr. Second, because Md stores the same amount of Data on a
smaller disc, the Data must be compressed. This results in some Data
loss. On most newer models, the technology has become good enough
that the Data loss is very difficult to detect. On many older
models, it was much easier to detect Data loss. Md really is good
though. They provide a cheap and high quality way to record
concerts.
D) DAT
DAT, digital audio tape, is the benchmark and highest standard for
tape trading and concert recording. DAT has many advantages over
both Md and Cdr. DAT can use a sampling rate of 48 kHz that provides
the best sound quality available. That is better than CD quality.
DAT tapes can also provide up to six hours of uninterrupted recording
time. This means there is no tape flipping required like on Md or
Analog Tape. DAT can also be copied with virtually no generation
loss. The biggest problem with DAT is that it is very expensive. A
new DAT recorder can cost as much as 4 times what a new Md recorder
would cost. Another problem with DAT is that DAT tapes do not last
as long as Cdrs or Mds. DAT machines are very fragile. There are a
lot of moving parts and they can be expensive to fix. As far as the
quality goes with DAT though, it is unbeatable. Many traders only
trade exclusively on DAT because best medium for high-end trading.
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8. Copying/Cloning
A) Why I have put this into the FAQ.
I was undecided as to whether or not I should put this section in the
FAQ but I decided that it was necessary. I feel it is necessary
because the majority of people do not know the proper way to copy
music, especially in the trading community where the standards need
to be set high. Many people, especially in the Cdr medium, practice
poor copying habits that result in a quality of music that is less
than it should be. Most new traders are either unaware of good and
bad cloning methods and choose speed and quantity over quality. The
methods for copying/cloning are always under debate. Everyone has
their own methods and ways of doing things. In this FAQ, I will
attempt to explain the most accepted methods for making the highest
quality copies/clones. The issue here is QUALITY, not quantity.
B) Cdr copying
Cdr copying is by far the medium with the fewest followed standards.
Everyone seems to have their own method of copying Cdrs, some good,
most bad. Because Cdr is now the biggest medium, there are many
copies of music where the quality has been greatly compromised.
Problems include skips in tracks, pops, and Data loss. If done
correctly, there should be no generation loss. Here is a widely accepted
method for making the highest quality copys that is reasonable.
1. The right Cdrs.
One of the biggest problems is that people use poor quality Cdr
blanks. Cdr blanks can be extremely finicky and what works for
one person may not for another. Poor quality blanks may also
lose data after a short period of time or may be proned to
errors during burning. For this reason, certain brands and
quality Cdrs have become the standard for Cdr copying. These
brands seem to have the most widespread compatability and have
been proven to hold data for the normal or better than normal
amount of time. Most traders request certain brands such as
Sony, TDK, Kodak, Imation, Mitsui, Maxell, and a few
others. All this is, of course, debatable.
2. The copying Method (Computer CD-Burners)
Burning on a computer starts with a good Data source. If the
source data has CD scratches or defects, then the copies will
not be flawed. A person should burn from their Hard
Drive to Cdr rather than copying directly from CD to CD. This
prevents buffer underruns and allows secure extraction. In order to
make the best quality copies, a person must first extract the Data
on a CD to the hard drive. It is important to get the best possible
copy on the hard drive. There are many programs that do digital
extraction, but the most widely accepted is Exact Audio Copy.
This program is available for free at http://www.exactaudiocopy.de.
Most traders feel that this provides the highest quality of
digital extraction. Once the digital audio is extracted, a
good software program is needed. It must be Disc-at-Once
compatible (DAO), especially if burning live music. Some
popular programs are Nero, EAC, and Cdr-Win. When burning, it is
best to pick a speed that you are sure your computer can handle
without buffer underruns. Tests show that cdrs burned at higher
speeds do not yeild significantly higher error rates, but please
burn responsibly! Never ever, burn in ON-THE-FLY mode. This
produces very poor quality copies. The final item is that a person
should never do anything on his/her computer while Cdrs are burning.
This takes up the computer's resources and will easily cause buffer
underruns. This produces skips in the Cdr and may even ruin it.
Just pop the Cdr in and let it burn. It will only take 10-30
minutes. Go do something else other than play on your computer. It
will make a better copy.
3. The Copying Method (Stand-Alone Burners)
Stand-alone Cd burners are very nice products. They are much
easier to use than cd burners and are much more reliable.
Simply stick the data cd in the reader, and the blank in the
burner. There are a few disadvantages to them though. First,
they aren't very cheap. They can be about three times the
price of a good cdr writer. Second, if you don't get a semi-pro
deck, which can be even more, then you have to deal with SCMS.
This is copyright protection that protects copies from being
copied. Also, with consumer decks you must use Audio grade Cdrs
which are nothing more than a way to take a few more dollars from
the consumer. The plus with stand-alones is that it is usually much
easier to transfer from Md>Cdr or DAT>Cdr. Stand-alones usually h
have resampling capabilities that save a lot of time.
C) DAT Cloning
Dat Cloning is an issue that must be addressed as well. Although
most people that own DATs are serious traders and are usually very
informed on the best cloning techniques and put quality first, there
are still problems.
To clone DATs, you need two DAT decks. This is usually a portable
deck (D7, D8, or M1) and a home deck (Tascam DA-20/DA-20 MKII or Sony
R300/R500). The portable deck is the play deck and the home
deck is the recording deck. The portable deck is hooked up to the
home deck using a 7pin to coax cable and the digital I/Os on the
decks. The 7pin goes into the portable and the coax is hooked into
the home deck. The most important part of cloning is to "unpack"
your tapes. "Unpacking" means to fast forward to the end and then
rewind. This smooths out the tape and helps to lubricate it. I have
been told that it is wise to unpack not only the blank, but the master
as well. If you don't unpack tapes, then you are more likely to get
diginoise. Diginoise is the worst problem when cloning DATs.
Diginoise is caused by the tape sticking to the heads or to much
friction. Unpacking helps to avoid this more than anything. When
you are ready to record, get the master tape positioned to just
before the music starts. Hit record on the home deck and let it
record for one full minute before you hit play on the master. This
helps smooth out the tape and reduce any diginoise. This first part
of a DAT tape is the most likely to have diginoise. After that, it
is smooth sailing. There is absolutely no reason to mess with the
levels. DAT records perfect exact copies of the original. All the
levels will remain the same. The best or most accepted tapes for DAT
cloning are Maxell or Sony DDS (Data Grade) tapes in 60m length. 90m
is now becoming more accepted and is usually fine for most traders if
it is required. 60m tapes can record 120 minutes in 44.1kHz or 48kHz
and 240 minutes in 32kHz.
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9. Creating a Bootlist
A) What should a Bootlist accomplish?
A bootlist should let the trading community know what you have to
trade. It's that simple. With a bootlist, you will begin getting
trade offers and your collection will grow. A bootlist should be
neat and contain certain details about the items in your collection.
A bootlist should usually contain information such as generation,
source info, mic and deck info, time/length, ratings, and additional
details that may be necessary about any given show. Many bootlists might
not contain all this information, but they do serve their purpose.
They bring in trades.
B) How do I start a bootlist?
Start a bootlist by answering a few simple questions. Do I want it
published on the internet or available upon request? Is generation
and source info important to me? How much work do I want to put into
my list? Once you have answered these questions, it is much easier
to begin.
1. Do I want my list published on the web or available upon request?
The advantage of publishing a list on the web is that it is
more accessible to people. People will be much more interested
in looking at it if all they have to do is enter in a URL. If
it is available upon request, then there are other advantages.
You will be able to control who and who doesn't view it.
Sometimes having a list on the web can flood your email box
with trade requests. If it is available upon request then you
don't have to know any html. You can simply type one up with a
word processor and it is not as unreliable as a web server may
be.
2. Is generation and source info important to me?
If generation and source info is not important and all you are
interested in is the music, then you will only be a casual
trader. This can be good. Many people are casual traders and
have a limited list. They typically don't care about
gen/source info. If it is important to you then you will have
much more trading power. Many traders will only trade if the
exact source and gen info is known. This offers a much bigger
circle to trade in. You can also still trade with casual
traders. Keeping track of gen/source info can be troublesome
though. Often times you may be unsure if the info you have is
accurate. It may take some time to and effort to find the
correct info.
3. How much work do I want to put into my bootlist?
This is another important question. Some people like to
integrate their lists into an entire website. Some people like
to put up setlists and a large wealth of info for their shows.
Others do not. A simple standard list will do fine.
C) The Standard Bootlist
The standard bootlist is very simple but contains a lot of
information. A standard bootlist is usually just normal text, no
images, and basically a bunch of facts. It lists the Date, venue,
location, source, generation, the medium owned on, length, mic info,
and maybe a few short notes. Here is an example of one listing in a
bootlist:
MM.DD.YY Venue Location MED FMT/SRC/G LEN/QU Notes
10.23.95 Riviera Theater Chicago, IL Cdr DAT/ Fm/0 074/09 Debut of MCIS
This is just a generic bootlist. It can be modified however one
chooses. The date can be changed to YYYY.DD.MM, you could add more
notes, etc. The easiest way to figure out how you want your list to
be is to look at existing lists. You can get some good ideas, but
don't copy people's list styles. Be creative.
D) Symbols and Legends
Bootlists usually contain many symbols. As you can see, there are
many and you may not know what they mean. People usually include
legends in their lists, but here is a list of some standard symbols:
PRO - Professionally Shot Video; ? - Unknown; Med - Owned format of
recording; AUD - Audience Recording; Cdr - Recordable Compact Disc;
STU - Studio Recording; FMT - Format; SBD - Soundboard Recording;
SRC - Source; DAT - Digital Audio; Tape G - Generation; Md - Mini
Disk; LEN - Length; ANA - Analog Cassette Tape; QU - Quality; Fm - Fm
Radio Broadcast; M - Master Copy/0 Generation
There are many other symbols and people often use different symbols
than those listed. Some people list Soundboard as SBR. It's just a
matter of preference.
E) General Trading Rules
Just about every trader has them. If they don't, they need to.
Trading rules help to ensure that you get what you want. Most
rules are along similar lines so there usually isn't a huge
difference between traders. Some of this stuff will differ a little
bit though so it is ALWAYS a good idea to check out a person's
trading rules. Here is a list of common trading guidelines:
1. General Guidelines
- I only trade certain formats, i.e. Cdr, DAT, Analog, etc.
- I am interested in obtaining X bands
- I will only trade if you know the lineage and source info
- Send in a bubble mailer
- Do/Don't send priority mail
- Do/Don't send cases
- Do/Don't send setlists
- I can/can't do b&ps or 2:1
- If you can't provide good references, you will send first
2. Analog Tapes
- Most people don't accept analog tapes anymore
- No high speed dubbing
- No noise reduction
- No song cutting
- Only use NEW Maxell type II 90 min cassettes
- Always unpack tapes, i.e. fast forward and rewind before recording
- Do not record on a boombox.
- Do not write on j-card.
3. Cdr
- Use X brand Cdr and X color. Tell me if you use anything else
- Burn only at 2x. No faster
- Do not write of put labels on Cdr
- Record in DAO mode
4. DAT Rules
- Use X brand and Xm tapes
- Always unpack tapes
- I can/can't clone
- I can/can't transfer DAT>Cdr
5. Video Rules
- Use X brand and X quality/length
- Always record in sp mode
- Only use two hi-fi stereo VCRs
- Unpack tapes, i.e. fast forward and rewind before recording
- Do/don't write on label
Most traders also try to put their equipment used on this page.
These are only common guidelines and can be used in any combination.
There are others too that can be just plain obscure. Please try to
follow them though. It is your responsibility to satisfy the other
trader.
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10. Things to know/common topics
A) Why is the Smashing Pumpkins trading community different than others?
This is a very difficult question to explain. There are many other
trading circles out there that are much different than the Smashing
Pumpkins. The Dave Matthew's Band, Phish, and Grateful Dead come to
mind. These communities are much more open and willing to share
their music than the Smashing Pumpkins community is. There are a
couple of reasons for this. First, there are just different people
involved. They were formed differently than the Smashing Pumpkins
community and along the way, we just formed differently. Probably
the biggest reason though is that the Smashing Pumpkins have never
officially allowed taping. They do not customarily inform venues
that taping is allowed. This means that tapers risk a lot to tape
shows. They must sneak in their recording equipment and risk being
caught at any time during the show. This is called "Stealth" Taping
and can be very risky as well as nerve racking. Bands like Phish,
Dave Matthew's, and formerly the Grateful Dead, allow taping. They
encourage people to bring their recording equipment to the venue and
often provide soundboard patches or taping sections. They also
inform the venue so they will not hassle tapers. Because the
Smashing Pumpkins don't freely allow taping, it is much more
difficult to get recordings. Because of this, tapers want, and
probably deserve, a little in return. This means that they won't
just freely give away their recordings. They took some serious risk.
They probably sneaked in at least $1000 of recording equipment that
at any time could be damaged or confiscated and they feel they should
receive a little compensation. If you wonder why a Smashing Pumpkins
taper doesn't give out recordings without hesitation, think of what
they must do to get their recordings. Without tapers, no shows!
B) These traders have all these shows on DAT. Why won't they put them on Cdr?
(note: this question may no longer be relevant in the SP community due to
the amount of time that has passed since the any shows were recorded.)
This is another difficult to answer question. Most DAT recordings do
eventually make it onto Cdr, it just takes time. It may take a year
or two, but they usually do make it onto Cdr. There are several
reasons most DAT traders are hesitant. First, a trader can really
only put his own recordings/masters on Cdr. If a DAT trader were to
transfer someone else's recording, that trader would be in big
trouble. A taper owns the right to his/her recording. That taper
gets to decide whether or not a recording makes it to Cdr. Second,
transferring DAT>Cdr is not an easy process. A person must have a
digital soundcard and will have to resample the music from 48Khz to
44.1Khz, the sampling rate of CDs. If done by software, this can
take a long, long time. Tracks must be cut and start and end times
designated. Transferring DAT>Cdr is not the simplest process in the
world. Third, there is quality loss when transferred to Cdr. Not
only is there the initial quality loss of 48Khz>44.1Khz, but there is
also the inevitable quality loss as the Cdrs get circulated. People
will not burn them properly and eventually, the quality will get to
the point where the music is untradable. The music may even make a
jump from Mp3 back to Cdr. The last and most important reason is
that the music might eventually be sold. This is a tapers biggest
concern. The fact that some idiot will eventually decide to make a
quick buck and sell his/her recording. Those Cdrs will soon enough
make their way to Ebay and this is what the taper wants to avoid.
Until the Cdr trading community can show a little respect for others
recordings, DAT tapers/traders will always be hesitant to convert DAT>Cdr.
C) I'm new to the trading community. How should I go about starting?
My best suggestion is to lay low for a while. Just watch, read, and
learn. By doing this, you will learn how to interact in the
community better than any FAQ could ever tell you. You learn many
subtle things like what not to ask, how to treat people, and what is
and isn't acceptable. Because you are new, there isn't a whole lot
you can contribute to the community that isn't already there. There
is no rush to try and become a big member. Just sit tight. It takes
time to find your place in the community. You need to grow
first. Trust me, there are very large advantages to just sitting
tight rather than firing every thought that comes out of your head.
D) Hoarding
One of the most common and redundant issues in the Smashing Pumpkins
community is hoarding. People seem to believe that there are dozens
of shows, songs, and demos out there in that are being selfishly kept
within a small group or possibly just one person. THIS IS A MYTH.
People, hoarding does not exist as everyone thinks it does. Most
people believe that there are many shows that aren't in circulation.
They are wrong. Most shows are in circulation. They aren't hidden
on people lists either. You just have to simply look around a while
to find them. This means going out and looking through bootlists.
There are only a couple of shows that are not in circulation, and
this is not because they are being hoarded. One reason they are not
in circulation is because they are not in the hands of traders. They
are in the hands of those that do not have anything to do with the
Smashing Pumpkins trading community. Believe me, people have
attempted get a hold of these shows. Some of the largest and most
successful traders have had no luck getting these shows. Many of
these shows are in the hands of people that do not trade anymore.
Do not bring up the issue of hoarding. It won't get you anywhere. People
are sick and tired of the issue. The only thing that I can say on this
issue is that hoarding simply doesn't exist on the level that everyone
believes it does.
E) Elite Traders
Elite Traders is a term that has been created by the common sp fan as
a reference to people who either have large lists, or are believed to
have rare items. Elite traders really isn't the proper term, nor is
the connotation that is brought with it. Traders with big lists are
simply dedicated. They have spent many hours of time and hard work
getting their collection the size it is. They have not been given
any super rare material. Elite Traders really isn't a term that
should be used. They really aren't "elite" in any way. They just
simply have put forth the effort to get to where they are today.
F) Why is mic/source/gen/deck stuff important?
This information is important for several reasons. First, it helps
define a particular recording. Often times, there are several
recordings of a show. Some are good quality, some are poor quality.
It helps a person decipher whose or what recording it is. It is also
important because it can give a person a clearer understanding of
what the recording will sound like. CSBmod>M1 will sound much better
than RadioShackmic>microcassette. Most serious traders won't even
consider an offer unless the exact source info and lineage is known.
People don't want to be guessing about what they are getting. Some
people couldn't care less. As long as the music sounds good, then
they are satisfied. They just limit themselves to who they can trade
with and put themselves at a higher risk of getting a poor recording.
G) The Smashing Pumpkins stance on trading and bootlegs
This really varies. From what I understand and the general feeling
of the community, Billy appears to not have a large issue with
trading. He is aware that people tape shows and knows that people
trade. This differs though. There have been stories that people
have mentioned it to him and he has acted as though he was not cool
with taping/trading. Ultimately, most seem to feel that he is okay
with it. He has never publicly stated that he was against
taping/trading and there are numerous accounts where he has stated
that he doesn't mind. As long as it is about the music, for the
fans, and people are not selling it, then he is probably cool.
H) CDR Gens
To begin with, CDRs do not generation. Unlike analog tapes, which degrade
in quality as they are copied over and over again, CDRs, like most digital
media, retain no quality loss with each copy. This, of course, holds true
if the CDR is copied properly.
Regardless, some people feel the need to know the "generation" of their
CDR, feeling that if they know how many times something has been copied,
it will aid in their assessment of its quality. As it stands, there is no
universal way of labeling the generation of a CDR on a bootlist, although,
where one may place the generation is dependent on the bootlist itself.
Most traders, up to this point, have labeled all CDR gens as O, often
labeling discs as "CDR-0." Now, one may think that a 1, 2, 3, and so on
should be affixed after the zero in numerical order of the ascending
generation, similar to the way a DAT clone is labeled (DC-#, or DDC-#).
This would be simple had the problem of analog generations not come into
play.
Often, analog tapes are transferred to CDR. The generation of the analog
tape is always paramount in such transfers and must be marked. As such, a
CDR made from a second generation tape would usually be labeled as CDR-2.
This conflicting generation leads to problems if people become overly
obsessed with CDR information.
As such, it seems most appropriate to label CDR generations when writing
out the source info a disc. An example to be following:
Bootlist:
09.29.00 Palavivios; Milan, IT. 8.5/10 130 DAT/CDR-0
Details of source info:
CSB>D7>DATM>SB AWE64 Gold>CDR1
Since this is sourced directly from the taper, who presumably has the
master CDR (labeled as CDR0 or CDRM), this is given the moniker CDR1. If
it is then traded, it is CDR2.
Most traders do not consider CDR gens to be of high priority, though, and,
in the end, they're nice to know, but not integral.
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11. Conclusion
Well, I hope you learned something. Trading can be very complex, but
the music isn't. That is why people trade. They simply want a way
to get good music that isn't widely available at a low cost. Getting into
the trading community really takes no more than a little effort and time.
People spend all their time complaining about traders when they could use
all that energy trading. It really isn't that hard and once you get off
the ground, it comes easy. It is very enjoyable and the interaction
between people is an added bonus. I never saw an Mp3 or ftp that
could say that. If you have any questions, comments, cheers or
jeers, then feel free to write me. I am open to any suggestions!
Thanks for taking the time to read this! Happy Trading!
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12. What's New/History
07.22.00 - FAQ created in it's initial form :) V 1.0
07.29.00 - Minor Edits, can't remember what they were for the life of me
V 1.1
09.28.00 - Added International Trading Section. Added History section.
Added Link to official address V 1.15
03.09.00 - Added SHN information to: Trading Terms; V 1.2 never published
Re-did the International Trading Section with much better info
07.08.00 - Major Update. Fixed the majority of grammatical error and made
several minor edits. Thank you Jeroen VB for helping me!
Added CDR Gens to the things to know section. Thank you very
much Dave Fresko for writing this and clearing up a major
misconception in the trading community. There is other stuff
in there so I won't spoil it all for you! Read it again if you
must :) V 1.25
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13. Acknowledgements
Thanks to these people:
P.J. Pearson for giving me some good ideas and just some great
general help. Jason Roth and Andrew Fogelsong for helping me with
the DAT sections, especially DAT cloning, and trading etiquette.
Eric Agnew for general advice and help on Billy's status on trading.
Thank you Jeroen VB for fixing many gramatical errors and Dave Fresko for
helping me with CDR Gens.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. Legal
This document is copyright (c) 2000-2001 by Zach Payne. It was created
for free and public use. It may legally be distributed in its
original text form through free, online distribution. You may not
modify, sell for profit, or claim this document as your own work in
any way, shape, or form. Please give proper credit to me as the
creator and current maintainer. The latest edition of this FAQ can
be found at http://www.spfc.org/tradingfaq.txt. Please direct any
questions, comments, or suggestions to me at pzane@hotmail.com.
EOF